We’ve had a rewatch for one prequel, but there are still two more! After critics and fans alike came at The Phantom Menace with finely-sharped machetes, George Lucas decided to get a cowriter on Episode II. His name was Jonathan Hales, and I saw him on stage at Celebration II, the second Star Wars fan convention (back when they held it in Indianapolis—it was only a short road trip from home). He was talking about how it was important not to get bogged down in who-wrote-what-line, but did make a winking comment that Obi-Wan’s whole “You don’t want to sell me deathsticks” bit was his.
To be fair, it’s a pretty great bit.
The jump from Episode I to II was a great flying leap. Fans learned it was going to take place ten years later, that Anakin would be recast as indie darling Hayden Christensen, and suddenly Boba Fett had a dad? Yoda was CGI, and about to fight with a lightsaber? Christopher Lee was involved?
Then, of course, there was the fandom uproar over the title. Apparently people thought “Attack of the Clones” did not have the required oomph/sexiness for a Star Wars film. It was too silly, too trivial. Lucas claimed that the title was meant to harken back to old SFF serials from his childhood, and frankly, that seems as good a reason as any. Also… people really thought that title was cornier than “The Phantom Menace”? Come on.
The title did give fans a very important clue, of course: that the Clone Wars, name-dropped by Luke in Episode IV would indeed be a focal point of the prequel trilogy. The Expanded Universe (now the Legends canon) had already given their vague say on the Clone Wars, being that they were wars fought over the emergence of clone technology. It was a sound idea, and a sharp science-fiction move too. But Star Wars has never been heavy on the science front, and when you looked into it more closely, the idea that a galaxy with artificial intelligence and interstellar travel and freaking laserswords would balk at the idea of cloning seems a bit off base.
Lucas ignored these suggestions utterly, and made the name more literal—it’s called the Clone Wars because it is a war being fought by clones. Get it? But audiences knew nothing of that plan in the beginning. We only knew that we were finally going to figure out what sort of “damned fool idealistic crusade” Anakin followed Obi-Wan on. (In truth, he didn’t really do that, and Obi-Wan wasn’t such a big fan of the Clone Wars. Obi-Wan was just spinning tales, as he is wont to do when young Luke is nearby.)
So I rewatched it! Carefully, studiously, and again, doing my best to keep personal reservations and opinions out of the mix. And here is the curious result:
My stance on this movie has shifted entirely—Attack of the Clones is a weaker film than The Phantom Menace.
Episode I had a lot of excess material that needed trimming, and a lot of ideas that needed expanding. The one benefit the The Phantom Menace had going for it was that you could make plenty of inferences based on what you saw and heard. You could guess what Lucas was going for, even when the narrative was vague or sloppy. But Episode II, on paper, makes no sense whatsoever.
So Padmé comes back to Coruscant (she’s a senator these days) to vote on a very important bill, one that will create an army for the Republic, rather than allowing individual systems to defend themselves however they see fit. She’s against it, being from a pacifist culture and all that jazz. Her decoy is immediately offed in an assassination attempt—again, how do we not get more from Padmé and her handmaidens? it’s way too interesting to keep pushing off into a corner—and Padmé visits the Chancellor to talk about what went down. She tells him and several Jedi Council members that she thinks the Separatist Leader, former Jedi Count Dooku, was behind the attempt. She never explains why she assumes that, unless we’re meant to believe that the Separatists want war, which has not been implied at all up to this point.
More importantly, we never learn why we should be upset about the Separatist movement; they think they’re government is failing them, so they’ve decided to opt out. Why is this a problem? Will it create trade issues? Is the Republic concerned about vying against another large government? We hear people make vague comments like “The day we stop believing democracy can work is the day we lose it,” but we don’t see any evidence of that occurring. We just see a group that has decided that the political body in charge no longer has their best interests at heart. It’s not like the US Civil War; the Separatists’ desire to leave the Republic is down to the government’s antiquated systems, their overblown grandeur, their inability to get things done.
(I should point out that all of these questions are answered—and then some—in the Clone Wars cartoon. Seriously, that show is a gift, and works so hard to show the machinations going on across the galaxy. It puts everything that occurs from this film forward into perspective.)
Obi-Wan and Anakin are dispatched to look after Senator Amidala, and rather than attempt to show any growth Anakin has made (aside from becoming a totally different person), the first thing we find out is that he’s been carrying his torch for Padmé all this time, and now he’s gonna… well, we don’t know. But Obi-Wan is keen to tease him about it. The movie then proceeds to pepper horrifying dialogue throughout where Anakin proves that his creepy nine-year-old self has nothing on his creepy twenty-year-old self. Lines like, “She covered the cameras; I don’t think she liked me watching her.” and “I am haunted by the kiss you never should have given me.” and “I don’t like sand. It’s rough and course and irritating, and it gets everywhere. Not like here. Everything is soft and smooth.”
Because, at is core, Attack of the Clones was meant to be a love story. That’s right, this budding romance is meant to be the central narrative, the one that turns the wheel of the universe. The soundtrack single released in 2002 was the track “Love Across the Stars,” and it is so achingly beautiful that I can almost forget the dialogue and the awkward giggles, and just use this piece of music to tell me everything I need to know about Anakin and Padmé’s relationship. This motif has more to say about their forbidden love than the entire movie.
Oh that’s right—did I mention it was forbidden? Because that was a brand new thing that the film introduced. We got wind that this might be coming when Yoda got all freaked out by Anakin’s attachment to his mom in the previous film, but here is where we come to the crux of Anakin’s fall: It begins when he decides to fall in love with the woman of his dreams, against the commandments of the Jedi Order.
And in theory, I love this idea. The notion that the Jedi bring about their own destruction by demanding that their disciples avoid romantic attachment is a profound move—especially when we know that Luke’s familial love for his father is ultimately what saves him. It shows us just how deeply out of touch the Order is. Plus, I’m a sap, and forbidden love plotlines sounded like an awesome thing to have in a Star Wars movie.
The problem, of course, comes from the fact that the dialogue here moves beyond cliche and into parody. And no, Anakin being young is not an excuse for lines like, “My heart is beating, hoping that kiss will not become a scar. You are in my very soul, tormenting me.” If he were fifteen, and fronted a high school emo band, then I guess. He’s trying to impress a grown woman, a shrewd politician, and even more unbelievably, she goes for it. After straight up saying to him, “Please don’t look at me like that. It makes me uncomfortable.” No. This is not how real people act.
And that’s not even the best part! No, we haven’t even gotten to the point where Anakin buggers off to Tatooine because he’s certain his mother is in danger. He finds out that she’s been freed, and is married to a man named Cliegg Lars. (This was a huge alteration. Lucas’ original intention was for Owen to be Obi-Wan’s brother, and a large portion of the fanbase knew that. It was a big deal to have that detail scrapped.) The Lars family tells Anakin that his mother was taken by Tusken Raiders, and he goes looking for her. She dies in his arms on the floor of a tent, and Anakin’s reaction is to murder every last Sand Person in the camp.
There are about eighteen things wrong with this, the primary one being that the Sand People are simply cast as villains in this, even though they’re meant to be Tatooine natives. But the most horrific part of all is that Anakin comes back and admits this to Padmé and her response is essentially—I’m gonna marry that man.
Her sweetie just committed small-scale genocide and she comforts him. Yes, he lost his mother, but these are not proportionate reactions. If he had told her “I killed the men guarding her,” or even “I killed their warriors,” her willingness to overlook it might be understandable. Not better, but understandable. But after a guy tells you that he essentially destroyed an entire tribe of people, that he decapitated kids, that’s the point where you run to your shiny Naboo spaceship and get as far away as possible. (It’s worse with the deleted scene, an extension of Anakin’s admission, where Padmé counters this horrifying truth with “To be angry is to be human.” …ARE YOU F*CKING SERIOUS?) And worst of all, the entire sequence undermines the real, righteous grief Anakin should be feeling over the death of this mother, an event that will have a huge impact on the course of his development.
And then we have the B plot, which is Obi-Wan trotting all over the place to solve the mystery of Amidala’s attacker. Some of this stuff is charming and fun (whatever, I love Dex’s Diner, that whole retro-future 1950s setup is adorable), but the rest of it is totally confusing. Obi-Wan can’t find the planet Kamino in the records, and Jedi Master Jocasta—the super-librarian—says the most un-librarian-like thing I’ve ever heard: If we don’t got it, it’s plum made up. So Obi-Wan has to get some Jedi preschoolers to tell him that the planet is totally there, even though it should be obvious because of gravity. I think that entire scene was just an excuse to show tiny Jedi students.
Obi-Wan gets to Kamino and there’s this weird subplot about Jedi Master Sifo Dyas ordering the Republic a clone army. And here is where the film completely jumps the shark because we never get an explanation for this ploy or why it would ever work on people who have brains that make thoughts. Sifo Dyas is dead: the real point in that Sidious and Dooku are responsible for the clone army order and used his name so it seemed legit, but that is NEVER SAID OUT LOUD BY ANYONE. More importantly, Kamino has been making these clones for the past decade—if Dyas is dead, who is their contact? Here is one perfect place to interject a random Darth Sidious scene, showing him talking to the cloners. Without knowing, it seems as though the Kaminoans have been hammering away at that army for ten years without ever checking in with a Republic representative, which is not how business is done, period. In fact, they should have had people coming to inspect their work this whole time, someone checking off on their choice of DNA donor, requests and lab work and a million other little things.
Which brings me to my most anger-making question: why, in the name of all that is holy, did the clone template have to be BOBA FETT’S DAD. WHY. All it really proves is that George Lucas has no idea why the fandom liked Fett in the first place. He’s the silent cowboy type, the guy who never takes his mask off by choice because he’s got a true sense of theatricality. And now I’m watching kid!Fett sit in the Slave I cockpit with his dad, saying crap like “Get him, dad! Get him!” This is not a thing I ever wanted. I doubt anyone really wanted it. The only true purpose in putting Jango in the film is to have a Boba Fett-like character around to get in a fight with a Jedi. (This one really rankled for me personally because Fett in the Legends canon was really important to teenage me. I’ve gotten past it, but I sort of pretended it hadn’t happened for a while.)
Obi-Wan follows the trail and gets captured on Geonosis, then questioned by Count Dooku, and Christopher Lee is utterly wasted here. Yet again, nothing that he offers makes sense. His interrogation of Obi-Wan is just confusing; is he trying to mollify him? Turn him to the Dark Side? Proposition him? Nothing gets explained, people are just constantly in peril. Like the whole droid factory mess, which may be one of the most boring action sequences in any science fiction film ever. (Stop abusing Threepio like this, he’s better than those puns you keep piling on him.) And finally, we get a big battle at the end, and… the clones are useful? Hooray? This is one movie where we actually need a bit more politics—we need to understand how this looks to the galaxy, we need more public opinion, more cloak and dagger. The out-and-out firefight tells us nothing. It’s just a stock end-of-movie sequence.
And even above all of these strange problems, we have the most important takeaway: this poor cast. Pity them. Why was everyone directed this way? It’s some of the most wooden acting I’ve ever seen, and coming from truly excellent actors. The only person who manages to come off with his usual gravitas is Christopher Lee (probably because you don’t really direct Christopher Lee—you just point a camera at him and agree that everything that happens from that point forward is perfect). If you pay attention to the dialogue, we’re meant to infer that Anakin and Obi-Wan have this sparring brotherly relationship, that they’re playful and supportive of each other. Unfortunately, McGregor seems to have been directed to act the part of a grumpy dad. None of the character’s wit comes through (with the pointed exception of the “good job” exchange) and we can’t really blame Anakin for chafing under his direction. Christensen and Portman have all the chemistry of two wood blocks being banged against each other, and I don’t think it’s because they truly couldn’t have sold the couple—I think they’re being told to play it far too innocent to be believable. Neither of these characters needs to seem so naïve and wide-eyed.
And then we have more pointless symmetry. Last movie, Anakin blew up a Death Star droid control ship. This movie he gets his arm cut off. Okay. You can start his transition to “more machine now than man,” as Obi-Wan put it to Luke. But mirroring something just to mirror it is usually a bad choice.
The kids get married and no one notices that Anakin is gone because I guess he has lots of free time now that the Clone Wars have started(?) And we’ve just watched over two hours of romance/mystery/war mongering that will hopefully lead… somewhere. Just be thankful be have the novelization to look forward to—we’ll get much more information there, yet again.
Emmet Asher-Perrin had a friend who used to faux-pick up women in bars by walking up and saying “I don’t like sand, it’s rough, but you’re smooth!” He never got a date off of it. You can bug her on Twitter and Tumblr, and read more of her work here and elsewhere.
One thing to keep in mind, regarding the lack of backstory, is that, for good or ill, Lucas released the backstory setting up the Separatist movement int he Star Wars Insider magazine issues for the year and a half leading up to the release. He did the same thing for Revenge of the Sith.
I’m not claiming this is a great idea. But, since I bought every issue of that magazine for 6 years, I knew a lot about the goings on of galactic politics going in to those two movies.
I completely agree that episode II is a weaker film than The Phantom Menace. Almost no one comes across as likable and it fails in its two main goals: 1) Making us like Anakin and 2) Making us believe the love story between Anakin and Padme. Can anyone explain why Padme would like Anakin? The love story makes sense in theory but you needed Anakin to be charming, admirable and sexy. He was none of those things, so they ended up dumbing down Padme so much that she was unlikable. So in the end, you have two characters you do not like very much making obviously dumb decisions. It just didn’t work.
Attack of the Clones is a weaker film than The Phantom Menace
That’s pretty much exactly what my reaction was walking out of Attack of the Clones. Actually it was pretty much what my reaction was halfway through Attack of the Clones when I was watching Hayden Christiansen and Natalie Portman act like “two blocks of wood being banged against each other”. You know how there’s the fan edit of Episode I where Jar-Jar has been digitally removed from the film? I want to do the same thing to the Padme/Anakin “love story” in this movie.
The most positive thing that I recall from Attack of the Clones was that it set my expectations so low for Episode III that Revenge of the Sith actually managed to surpass them on my initial viewing. (This did not really hold up on subsequent viewings, though, so I’ll be curious to read your thoughts on Sith).
I thought the movie was fine in the parts where no one was talking.
Yep. All of that. It begs the question. If someone were to write what happens between every scene, would it be a better movie?
Not unlike a story told by a six year old, but with weaker characterization and internal logic. But the speeder chase on Coruscant is one of my favorite action sequences, and has an excellent soundtrack.
The stuff on screen doesn’t match the spoken words. For example, Padme is all about “it’s wrong for us to fall in love, I have responsibilites, you’re a Jedi, stop saying you love me” while dressing in leather fetish-ware and rolling around in the grass with him.
I wonder if anyone has tried to make a more sensible edit by eliminating all the dialog and replacing it with new subtitles.
No one ever talks about the best part of the movie – a Stormtrooper/Clone army that’s actually effective. They’ve got good equipment, they know what they’re doing, and they *do* it.
Why didn’t I ever notice how horrible it was for Padmé to embrace here love for Anakin after he confesses to massacring the Tusken Raiders?
A friend talked me into re-watching the film on IMAX. At the time, IMAX films could only be two hours long, so what we watched was heavily edited; a lot of the dialogue was cut, with the special effects and action sequences taking priority. When we got to the “I don’t like the sand” line, I winced — but then the next couple of lines were omitted, and it was actually okay? Maybe not good, but it was certainly more watchable and entertaining as a result of editing. I wish I could get a copy of that cut for future viewings.
Where does one even start with this one? The memory that always comes to my mind first is watching the bounty hunter chase through nighttime Coruscant and thinking, “This is already more exciting and new than anything in The Phantom Menace.” The one general advantage that Attack of the Clones has is that it’s snappier, with more flash and action.
Ewan McGregor is the single best thing about this film. I genuinely enjoy following him around the galaxy. But the things that he finds…while Kamino is set up as a clear callback to Bespin, it’s kind of cool with all of the water and the weird aliens. A Mandalorian fighting a Jedi is great imagery, but involving Boba Fett was possibly the worst idea ever. I agree, it demonstrates an almost complete lack of understanding of why the character was popular in the first place. Also, the Sifo-Dyas thing was hella confusing.
I had always imagined that the clones were the bad guys in “the Clone Wars.” Even the title of this film kind of suggests that. The Clone Wars show did eventually give the conflict some good fleshing-out, but the whole war still feels a bit…off. It certainly worked out well for Palpatine, though.
Speaking of the show, one of the best things about it was that we finally got to see all of the other Jedi masters as really people. To say that the colosseum battle on Geonosis has not aged well is an understatement, and the worst part is how the various Jedi (aside from Obi-Wan, Mace and Anakin) look like random extras in cheap costumes, making gestures against green screens. It is really a sad scene from that standpoint. Those characters deserved better.
Yes.
Now, I remember when the movie came out, I was totally hyped by it and got super excited about it and analyzed it to death (because you are right – it’s ridiculously confusing and makes no sense and is too convoluted for its own good). I have mixed feelings about the Yoda fight scene – I saw the movie a few times in the theater and people definitely cheered and went crazy for it. It didn’t fall flat in the audiences I was with. But looking back I wonder if it took away a little gravitas from the character? Not so much the lightsaber bits themselves, but the parts where he’s jumping from wall to wall like a manic gnat.
The romance is awful. Just awful. And creepy. I completely echo your feelings on the Sand People slaughter and Padme’s inexplicable reaction. Throughout the movies she’s supposed to be this character who represents justice, integrity, protecting the vulnerable, etc. And yet…nothing. Well, at least we know Vader’s child-killing tendencies are come by honestly.
Do we ever really learn why the Separatists are the bad guys? I mean, aside from the fact that they are being manipulated by Sith lords? I’ve only seen two episodes of the Clone Wars and I am still not sure I get what the motives are of the ‘average’ Separatist. But how, in theory, are the Separatists any different than the Rebels?
Also: Jocasta Nu: Worst. Librarian. Ever.
@10 – yes, I saw that too!
I also think switching some scenes would have been helpful.
For example, having the tick riding happen BEFORE the akward kiss scene (I think they happen in reverse order right now, which makes that kiss SUPER FREAKING CREEPY).
Now, all that said, I still find it an enjoyable movie. I like a lot of the scenes, especially the stuff with Obi-Wan’s whole plot. I loved Kamino and Dex’s Diner. I don’t really know how I feel about the Jango/Boba thing…i also had kept up on a lot of the Legends stuff about Boba Fett so it was weird to see it so handily discarded. And I agree that there is no real logical reason for it – it doesn’t really add anything to Boba’s character in the future movies, and nothing about the prequels required that it actually be Boba Fett’s father that was the clones. Nothing really ties them together
And the Jedi are complete idiots for (a) accepting the ready made army without asking more questions, (b) continuing to use said army without asking more questions, (c) especially regarding their enhanced obedience programming (Order 66 anyone?).
I’ve seen a couple CW episodes in which Yoda treats the clones as individuals, each on valuable and worth saving, but most of the Jedi (as far as I can tell) treat them as disposable, which is another reason the Jedi Order contributed to its own downfall.
The Separatists are *not* the bad guys, @Lisamarie. The Sith are. The separatists are a collection of planetary governments and economic blocs with various reasons for wanting to leave the Galactic Republic. Some of those reasons are quite just. Others are more about self-interest and personal gain. About like any other act of political theater.
Palpatine used, and encouraged, Galactic unrest in order to create the conditions under which he could declare himself Emperor, then he promptly had the ringleaders (the ones who knew they were being backed by a Sith Lord, so the bad ones) executed by Anakin.
But the vast majority of the Separatists who survived probably went on to become the backbone of the Rebel Alliance. They AREN’T substantially different from the Rebels.
You can’t even say that the Jesi were on the wrong side of the conflict, though. There WAS no right side to the conflict. Both sides were being directed by Palpatine. The whole thing was staged. The Jedi, and the Galaxy, were duped. I’ll tell you what. I complain about the execution of the prequels all the time, but what Palpatine accomplished, and the way it was presented… It really, really ramps up his boss level while watching the OT.
Which is kind of interesting when you think about it, because Mon Mothma and Bail Organa were themselves part of the Loyalists in the Republic (although if I recall they were more interested in diplomacy than war). It’s actually a shame about some of the deleted scenes, because there were some good ones, including ones with Padme’s family. Although I think I might be thinking of Revenge of the Sith, which had the additional ‘Loyalist’ scenes.
One wonders what the Jedi COULD have done to make things happen differently – or were they already too tightly tied to the Republic Government for that to happen? Hmm…
@15 – She definitely takes some liberties with the portrayals of both the Jedi and Mandalorians (and I think the TV show basically undoes all that anyway), but I count Karen Traviss’s Clone Trooper books as my favorites among all of the EU and even just amongst books in general. They definitely dig into the ethics (or lack thereof) of exploiting the clones.
On that note, having Dooku lead the separatists was a masterstroke of manipulation on the part of Palpatine, because in spite of the Jedi Order’s strong admonition against attachment, there IS something that the Jedi are VERY attached to–their own order.
By making Dooku the face of the Separatists, Palpatine guaranteed that most Jedi wouldn’t think too much or look too closely at the actual legitimate complaints of the Separatists. After all, EVERYTHING someone labeled an apostate does is evil, by definition.
@12 – The crowd in my theater also reacted with a lot of enthusiasm to Yoda fighting. I recall a lady with her kids, who were sitting in front of me, yelling “Awww yeeah!” or making a karate sound effect or something. So it did play well with many people. But it was all quite a departure from the air of gravitas that Yoda had been associated with up to that point, and I found it jarring.
@17:
I think Mothma was very sympathetic to the Separatist movement all along. Organa was tipped over the edge as soon as he saw what Anakin had done at the Jedi Temple.
@12, 19:
I had Zero problem with Yoda fighting. It was awesome. Its exactly the kind of fighting style I would have expected of him.
Also to nitpick, I was not happy to see all of the big ships (the Republic cruisers, the Trade Federation core units, etc.) actually landing on planetary surfaces. I thought it made more sense that ships that size were for non-planetary use only.
But that’s probably just me.
The Kamino segment was the only part of the film I enjoyed, but boy did I enjoy it. Obliviously earnest scientists and villain kids…wheee.
I was a bit less upset than should have been about Anakin saying he killed the Sand People women and children, because it sometimes seems rare for the women and children of an alien/fictional species to be mentioned at all. It definitely felt like a Moral Event Horizon in his character arc, but unsurprising given that we know the arc will lead to planetary destruction.
@11: I was annoyed by the misleading title. Though I now find it a bit amusing, as we assume an “attack” will be by the “bad guys” against which the “good guys” are forced to defend themsleves. In ttuth, anyone can go on the offensive.
@22:
Those ships are not the size of Star Destroyers, but yeah, it bothered me to… and continues to bother me.
There is no possible way that a TIE Fighter could manuever in atmosphere like they are in the trailers. Rebels also has freaking STAR DESTROYERS providing in atmosphere search party lighting in some of the more recent episodes. Its crazy.
X-wind designs at least have some nod to the laws of aerodynamics and gravity. TIEs in atmo, maneuvering like its vacuum really, really bugs me.
@23:
Maybe thats why Kamino was enjoyable. I always thought it was because Ewan MacGregor and Temura Morrison were the only two actors in the whole freaking movie who didn’t suck.
(I have a very similar complaint about both JJ Trek movies — the Enterprise should not be built on Earth’s surface, nor maneuver in atmosphere, much less underwater.)
Thank you for pointing out why Boba Fett was popular with some fans in the first place. It’s the same reason Eastwood’s Man with No Name (or Blondie if you prefer) was popular. Now imagine some Leone fan making a prequel where we find out Blondie came from a litter of six identical brothers. Diminishes that lone gunfighter character, doesn’t it?
I think this is the movie where I came to the realization that George Lucas is more toymaker than filmmaker.
I just remembered an old fan theory: that Episode II actually makes more sense, if Padme is evil (as a-Sith-pupil-of-Sidious-evil). It didn’t make sense to me at first, but then I rewatched E II with this in mind and wow, it actually does make a lot of sense. (Especially the being-cool-with-my-boyfriend-just-becoming-mass-murderer part).
I enjoyed the Yoda fight and the Coliseum fight–but I enjoyed them more in the Lego game version of the film :P
Star Wars Episode II: Anakin MAAAAAAAAAD!!!!!
Anakin was already raising all kinds of red flags in his little Junior Hitler speech about how he wanted to run the galaxy as a dictator just telling people what to do. You’d have thought that someone with her political leanings would have found that to be a huge turnoff. As I muttered to the friend I was with when I saw it on release day, “So basically, the galaxy went to hell because this chick had a faulty asshole detector.”
But I rather enjoyed the Obi-Wan side of the story, whether or not it made sense. Ewan McGregor’s channeling of Alec Guinness was so brilliant that he was fun to watch, and I liked the film noir style detective story.
The good thing about this movie is that the good parts and the bad parts are so distinct that you can fast forward past the bad stuff and only watch the good stuff. With The Phantom Menace, the bad is heavily sprinkled among the good, so it’s hard to watch the good parts and skip the bad parts.
Can we get a re-make? With a new script and everything? Somebody?
Regarding the Anakin-Padme love story I just had to chalk it up to Anakin repeatedly using the Jedi Mind Trick on her telling her she dug him and she loved him until it stuck. Otherwise, I just can’t see how she could have gone for it.
I did enjoy the Obi-Wan part of the movie, mainly because Ewan McGregor is a good actor and manages to make young Obi-Wan a cool dude that exemplifies pretty well what a good Jedi should be, even if he sometimes acts a bit dumb.
Other than the love story thing, the thing that bugged me the most back when it came out is that they use the Jedi and Sith lightsaber fights very strangely in this movie. I mean, we had already seen Obi-Wan beat Darth Maul, who fought like a maniac and really sold you on how dangerous he was, but in this movie Obi-Wan barely escapes with his life from a rather lackluster fight with Jango Fett on Kamino. In the same vein, we see Mace Windu behead Fett like it’s not big deal, and Dooku school both Obi-Wan and Anakin simultaneously, only to barely hold his own against a cringe-worthy Anime-inspired fighting Yoda.
Based on this it’s pretty hard to make heads or tails regarding who’s supposed to be good at lightsaber duelling because the fights aren’t choreographed to show this, so the characters have to actually tell you about it by using clunky dialogue in the vein of “Oh no! We can’t fight Count Dooku! He is the best duelist ever!” and “Jango Fett is a total badass and that’s why we are cloning him!” because otherwise you just have to do some mental gymnastics to infer it. I know it’s a nitpick and doesn’t really impact the movie that much, but it always struck me as odd.
@31 I dont know if you’ve watched the Star Wars: Droid Tales series that’s just finishing up on DXD, but throughout at least one episode, Watto pushes himself between characters or into a spate of dialogue, selling red flags. It’s pretty funny. This series has done a good job at making fun of different elements of the stories that fans made fun of, as well.
The more I think about this movie, the more the Darth Jar Jar theory makes sense…
teg
Yeah. Pointing out what is wrong with this film is a little too easy, but still, I suppose, fun.
The biggest problem from a character point of view is that Anakin was supposed to undergo a fall from grace somewhere in his backstory, but it is painfully obvious he never attained grace. He was just plain old worrying right from the start. Wooden acting and bad direction aside, the whole fabric of the character arc has little to no emotional resonance.
I tend to agree that Yoda shouldn’t have been fighting–if you re-watch him in Empire, Yoda is a wise teacherly type. It takes away from his gravitas, and was poorly thought-out fan-service. I winced in the theatre even as people hollered and cheered. I think in Empire of Dreams (?) there is an interview where someone relates that Lucas originally conceived Jedi Masters as different to Jedi Knights, that the Jedi Masters were the non-combatant, wise teachers. I kinda wish Lucas had stuck with that now, as odd as it seemed at the time.
I’m glad I’m not the only one bugged by the star destroyers and TIE fighters in atmosphere thing. It seemed pretty well established in the original trilogy that there were ships that never entered atmospheres, and star destroyers were one of them. Breaking world-rules that were developed earlier is bad world-building. It wrecks the suspension of disbelief. The usual argument that gets trotted out is along the lines of “you are ok with laser swords but Star Destroyers in atmosphere are unbelievable?” That’s missing the point. This is all to do with Tolkien’s idea of sub-creation. Create rules. Stick to them. Once you depart, the audience starts to suspect any old thing could happen and the story tension is undermined. World rules can now be broken to fix any old problem.
I also felt they completely missed a good opportunity here to rework the Star Wars universe in a way that would be been vastly more interesting. In the original trilogy, the technology all feels like WWII era machinery. When the prequels came out, I was hoping that they were going to riff on that idea and make the Clone Wars into something that echoed WWI in terms of uniforms, machinery and fighting. The sheer, mindless, stupid horror of WWI mixed with grandiose officers uniforms of the early 1900s would have worked so much better here than the strange military triumphalism we got instead. I didn’t think this through to the point of working out how ‘trench warfare’ would work in a Star Wars universe, but it could be done, I’m sure of it.
And, you know, a bunch of other stuff. The list goes on and on.
One of the only fan theories I’ve heard (or maybe I made it up in my own head… I don’t know any more?) is that the whole sequence of events is only explicable if Yoda is secretly in on it. Let’s say he knows that the Jedi have ruled too long. The Force is out of balance, but it’s because the light side has dominated for so long, the Dark Side is withering. In my head I even image Yoda visiting a planet where everything is lying down and dying peacefully because the Dark Side is completely dried up. There’s no fight left. None of the aggression needed in nature. Anyway, this doesn’t require Yoda to be evil… it doesn’t even require Palpatine to know that Yoda is actually pulling all the strings ultimately… but it does require him to sacrifice the whole Jedi order so as to restore balance and allow the Dark Side to rule for a while. What I like about it is that Anakin does restore balance as foretold, but not in the way the audience expects. He restores the Dark Side to total dominance for a while, sort of healing the Force, and then when the Dark Side has had enough time at the top, he puts things back to a more balanced state by offing the Emperor.
I honestly don’t know if I made that up or read it somewhere, or read it somewhere and added details in my head. Anyway, the idea that Yoda knows exactly what is going on and allows it to happen appeals to me.
And it’s the only thing I can think of in the back of my head to make these train-wrecks watchable. Ah, Yoda, what a tragic choice you have? I can see that look in your eyes, so badly torn. You must allow a few Jedi to live, but who? Which of your friends will you allow to die. You know. Etc.
Maybe that’s just me though.
Chris
I’ve always been amazed by the perception among latter-day Star Wars fans that it’s something meant to be taken seriously. It was always, always a pastiche of the cheesy, silly adventure serials of the ’30s and ’40s. Its titles were always meant to evoke their melodramatic bombast — The Empire Strikes Back is a perfect example, and the prequel titles were in the same spirit. It bewildered me when I heard fans complaining about that, as if SW were meant to be some kind of sophisticated, pretentious drama rather than popcorn movies aimed at kids (“of all ages”).
I don’t quite agree with the reading that the Jedi doomed themselves by forbidding romantic entanglements. That’s a very Western way of interpreting it, but Lucas was influenced more by Eastern philosophy, such as the Buddhist idea that the cause of suffering is attachment. That doesn’t mean you’re not allowed to care or have compassion, just that need and possessiveness lead to greed, frustration, and cruelty. It’s also in the ascetic tradition found in many religions. In India under the British Raj, for instance, many Hindu resistance fighters cut themselves off from their families and loved ones in the belief that they needed to dedicate themselves totally to the struggle. Monks, nuns, and priests deny themselves attachment and family because they choose to dedicate themselves totally to God. The Jedi were meant to be the same kind of ascetic order, sort of like Shaolin monks.
So I don’t think Lucas’s intent was “The Jedi deserved what they got because they rejected love.” I think his intent was that the Jedi were right — that while romantic love and family are fine for ordinary people, those who choose to commit themselves to becoming warrior monks with magic mind powers need to let go of attachment and desire so that they won’t abuse those powers. And it was Anakin’s inability to overcome desire and attachment that made him vulnerable to the Dark Side.
This theme goes all the way back to The Empire Strikes Back. Yoda warns Luke not to let sentiment interfere with his training, and Luke’s surrender to attachment and sentiment turns out badly — he doesn’t save Han, he loses his hand, and he almost gets captured or killed by Vader.
@7/StrongDreams: I once read an article from someone saying the prequels were much better movies if you watched them on mute, or without the dialogue track, or something.
If I could change only one thing about the prequels, I’d want to have Mark Hamill dub over all of Hayden Christensen’s dialogue. Or at least Matt Lanter.
@16/Anthony Pero: I agree — Palpatine’s intricate plan to manipulate the situation so that people would hand him a dictatorship was the most intriguing and effective thing about the prequels. Probably the only part that really worked. If only Lucas had had the sense and the humility to do what he did originally, which was just plot the movies out and let more talented people script and direct them.
@36 – That is actually one of the good things about the Clone Wars series is that you get to see Anakin as an actual hero, and not a creeper.
I’m not a fan of the Yoda theory – and honestly, in my opinion that would make him evil. I suppose it gets down to if the Dark/Light sides themselves have inherent morality – and honesty, I lean towards no on that – but I do think that just letting people die and the Sith (whom I do think have an inherently evil philosophy) take over in the name of ‘balance’ (what does that even mean? Balance is great in certain contexts but when it’s that arbitrary…eh) is shitty. My personal belief is that Anakin didn’t truly fulfill his prophecy until he killed the Emperor (and hopefully it will be up to Luke to continue on that path and learn from the mistakes of the Old Republic era JedI). OR, if by falling that is what actually brought balance, then I would argue that balance is not actually a good thing.
@37 – WORD.
As you can imagine, the immediate knee jerk reaction to celibacy or the idea that it equates to being out of touch, repressed, uncaring, unloving, etc kind of irritates me ;) Actually, one of Anakin’s few fine moments is when he explains to Padme the difference between being forbidden and ecouraged to love. In my mind that is the true ideal for a Jedi. One of my favorite works to read around the time of Lent is by a monk who writes about ‘detachment’ and how it means being free to love all things in accordance with their purpose (or rather God’s purpose for those things) in your life, and not holding on to them unduly. But that doesn’t mean you wouldn’t feel deeply about those things. For somebody like a priest/monk (be it of the Eastern or Western flavor)/Jedi that obviously has a pretty specific implication, but even for those of us who are married it is an important lesson.
That said, I’m not totally convinced the Jedi HAVE to be celibate and that there couldn’t be levels of the Order (such as we have deacons, secular oblates, etc) where perhaps some Jedi acolytes do go on and marry/have families, with celibacy reserved to those who are truly devoted to the Order and service (or meditation/scholarly pursuits, I suppose, which is a service in its own way). I suppose my real problem with it is that the impression is that, since the Jedi are taken from a young age, nobody gets to CHOOSE this or discern it. And that does kind of suck in my opinion. Ideally it’s something a person would discern for themselves.
Now that said, I think a case can be made for even the Jedi actually losing sight of this fact and being so extreme about it that they can’t even imagine why Anakin’s attachments might affect him the way they do, or viewing lack of attachment as detachment in the sense that you don’t actually care.
Regarding Empire Strikes Back, I do think there is at least a decent argument to be made that Luke was right, at least in the end. Maybe not when it came to running off initially, but ultimately his love – and dare I say it, attachment – for his father (or the idea of his father as a good person) and maybe even his sister, are what ultimately saved the day.
But in some ways it maybe goes back to the previous post I made, which is what does ‘bringing balance to the Force’ actually MEAN? What was it that was out of balance. Either balance was a bad thing in the first place (for example, if by balance you mean that you should kill somebody for everybody you save…that’s bad), OR the lack of balance was actually caused by the Sith’s clouding the Force, which we learn about in AOTC (I think) – in other words, not the Jedi – and so when Anakin destroys Palpatine, THAT is what actually brings back balance. Because while there may or may not be a ‘dark side’ in the sense that there is some quantifiably evil part of the Force (I don’t really believe this), I think at least certain philosophies (such as the Sith philosophy) could themselves lend to ‘imbalance’ if they are more focused on self aggrandization and domination and holding on to/possessing things out of their context or in the proper proportion. (I’m kind of tired now so I think I’m just rambling and not making sense anymore).
@39/Lisamarie: Oh, sure, it’s Vader/Anakin’s reawakened love for his son that saves the day. It’s not a matter of having to pick one side of the question as “right” and the other as “wrong.” That in itself is a Western way of thinking. Eastern thought tends to be more comfortable with allowing dualities to coexist, with seeking a balance of opposites rather than choosing one exclusively. Different people and groups can have differing value systems and philosophies, and neither one has to “win” over the other, since they can all have merits and weaknesses of their own and can complement each other. Some situations may benefit more from the clarity and enlightenment of the unattached ascetic, while others may benefit more from the love of a devoted parent or child. Both are needed in their own way for the good of civilization.
I’ve never given Lucas much credit for sophistication in his concepts — basically his entire career is built on pastiche of the things he liked as a kid — but his incorporation of Eastern philosophy was one of the most interesting things I think he did in SW. I appreciate it that he seemed to want to do more than just a simplistic white hat/black hat narrative. (Unless I’m reading too much into it and the ambiguity was just inconsistency.)
@39 I think that’s one of the best explanations of “balance” that I’ve heard (assuming I understood you correctly. Forgive me if I didn’t). Balance means that the force is being used properly and is not throwing the universe off balance. The Sith way is all about greed and selfishness so that would throw everything off. The dark side is a perversion of the force, so destroying the Sith would bring balance.
And i I agree with the others–Obi-Wan was easily the best part of this movie. Ewan McGregor seemed to be one of the only actors who could breathe any life into his character and actually make him likable. He paid tribute to Alec Guinness while giving us a new perspective on the character.
Please, all of you right now go to Belated Media’s You Tube channel. It does a complete story edit, which it needed, and is phenomenal.
Episode I
Episode II
@7, the essay you’re thinking about is by Camille Paglia, and it is brilliant. Probably still on the Internet somewhere.
I meant #37 REFERENCING @7. I’m tired. Still a great essay.
I have often thought that watching this movie with the sound turned down would be a much more enjoyable experience. The script was just hideous. Although, even without sound, I don’t think that the Anakin/Padme romance would work. I never felt any chemistry between the two actors.
There were a lot of great scenes and great images in this film, but it didn’t hold together well over all. Where it did hold together, it was mostly Ewan MacGregor who was on screen.
I liked it better than Phantom Menace, but not by much.
@39 – I’m not a deep scholar of these things, but what I imagine “balance” to mean, relative to use of the Force, is the embrace of feelings and emotions to a reasonable degree. The Jedi having become somewhat emotionally repressed, perhaps to the point of being cold and detached, and the Sith being the opposite, prone to overindulgence, there was a need for someone to find a sort of middle ground, a more empathetic approach, while still avoiding the dark side. That’s just my personal take.
As far as what George Lucas intended, “always in motion” it seems. The grey-area complexity of his later films is an interesting topic, especially when compared with the rather stark picture painted by A New Hope.
The Jedi are basically lazy Vulcans if you will. It’s not that love was forbidden etc it was that emotions and overt attachments were frowned upon because getting all emotional about something led you to a confused mind which led you to do things that were not logical or needed which led to darkness coming in which led to the Sith apparently. Jedi could feel, they just didn’t let it rule them to the point of destruction which was what they believed the dark side was.
Your right when you say Anikan is really set up badly here. Anikan never seems to have grown up in these movies and comes off as a whiny baby, who only wants mommy to pat his head and kiss his boo boo. He transfers this to Padme I think once his actual mother is dead. There is really just no justification for Anikan and his fall from grace when he doesn’t have one redeeming quality throughout the movies.And this is where the Clone Wars series comes in and fills in soooo many holes and character flaws from the movies.
The other thing that bugs me is that Yoda and the council knew Anikan was unstable from the beginning yet they apparently let this whole massacre happen and no one can sense what he’s done? It seems to me they failed miserably to reign in Skywalkers emotional tendencies. This guy should have been flagged long ago and cut loose.
The prequels have a lot of failings, but the biggest for me is that nothing ever justifies Anakin’s Dark actions. I know how it is stated in the dialog, but that never felt real to me, similar to the Anakin- Padme relationshp.
I soooo hope VII comes out good.
Ug ok … so lets list the ways I disagree here (1) people wanting to revolt against there democratic government is always bad the south wanting to leave the US (which was about more than what you say it was about but not going down that rabbit hole) was terrible and certainly should have been prevented. You do not get to leave a democracy simply because you disagree with the majority that way lies chaos. (2) The phantom menace was a cool title because it led to possibilities for interpretation was a phantom a menace? Was there a menace that wasn’t really a menace but a “phantom”? the fact that the answer to both these questions turned out to be yes was cool. (3) and the separatists wanting war is exactly correct – and the reason why is the cool part of the movie and something that should have been expounded more on. How the chancellor is scheming and thinking 200 steps ahead is what is cool. A better movie would have focused on him tipped what he was doing more openly but shown it and how cool it was (and focused on the Jedi’s incompetence which would have been good for later movies as it would explain why Obi Wan was so guilty and shut himself out later). You are correct though that the jedi order killing itself because it prevents love is a great idea. The first movies seem to be Buddhism is great while the prequels show the problems with it. If more had been done with this the movie would have been much better. I don’t find the lines as creepy as you but god are they bad. This is certainly not love but only simple lust (perhaps that was supposed to be part of the point?). Reacting to the people who killed your mother by killing them even if they are the natives is um not really that big a deal and what should be expected. I mean yeah they are the natives but I am sorry if they killed my mother 99% of people would want them killed. The idea that a colonist in America should not want to kill the Native Americans because they killed his mother is rather silly and asking more than any human would realistically be able to give. This is of course supposed to show his turn to the dark but really expecting his potential wife to act in any other way than impressed at his courage and the amount of love he has for his mother. Too much to ask. I also disagree with my people liked bobba fett. He was the best warrior and a cool killer. The fact he didn’t talk has nothing to do with it. We also learned in the other movies I think that the star troopers were clones of him so it isn’t like this was a new thing. You are correct it is a weak film. Not sure weaker than the first but yeah not up to the goodness of the first three. I wonder how much of that though is because the first three have become so engrained in our culture and were new? At the time action movies were not really done. I mean seriously look at movies on TMC from the time period? Action sci-fi movies were NEW this was one of the first. Now not so much. So I am not sure anything other than something equally revolutionary would have been as good.
@ALL those talking about Anakain not having good qualities to begin with. Wow. You have a much higher level for what is “good” than I do. I mean not so much in this movie but in the first one my problem was that he seemed to good. Lucas’s philosophy as I believe he has stated elsewhere is that people are born innocent always and it is society that makes you bad. Thus we have a pure innocent child becoming darth vadar. I find this ridiculous and my main problem with the first movie is Anakain was too good. Someone that would grow up to be Hitler/Darth Vader would need to be bad from the beginning to be believable to me. The fact he doesn’t was one of my main problems.
You are correct above commenter that the movies were never supposed to be serious. They were Saturday fun serials (which is what made them different from movies at the time). I think Lucas thought to much of himself after power of myth came out and that is one reason the prequals were so bad they tried to be all serious and failed. I also find people talking about how they didn’t like some of the things for science realism. Star Wars isn’t science fiction it is fantasy – wanting it to be anything else is where problems come in. Midiclohirans anyone? This is what made star wars different and better though it is still fantasy by the rules of hard science fiction (say Clark’s or Heinlein’s works) it is certainly much closer than star wars (I refer here of course to the old movies not the abominations that are the new ones). Star Wars was also always about the head more than simply action – again unlike Star Wars which was a Saturday Serial (I mean we even get a Pirate rope swing in the first movie) on the big screen as has been mentioned.
I agree with most of the things in the review.
The only thing I disagree with is that Padme comforting Anakin after he killed the Sand people does not make sense. If we accept that at this point she is already in love with him, I think it just shows that love is blind and that it is very hard to judge a beloved one the same way you would a stranger. Also, I think Padme thought she could change Anakin, be the grounding force he needs. Maybe she read too many romance novels ;)
I think on paper, their love story works quite well. Both have limited romantic experience, try to escape from the reality of their world falling apart around them, find comfort and trust in each other… But the lines and the acting is so horrible it gets unbelievable.
Emily, I hate to do this, but I think you’re a bit off base with your reading of the Legends Clone Wars history. In Zahn’s first trilogy, they had the cloning tech, it’s just that for some reason the clones were unstable and turned against their commanders(which has the neat side effect of explaining Order 66), and it’s eventually revealed that the Force is what broke the clones if grown too fast, and THAT is a total Star Wars explanation instead of standard sci-fi.
Your read of Anakin as twenty as interesting, because I never knew the time difference between I and II, so I always read him as 16. But your point that there is NO WAY Padme would have fallen for that shit.
@9, Because we’re sold abuse in our romance stories. We sold stories where the heroine’s job is to forgive the “hero” for the terrible things he does and love him unconditionally.
@36, That’s pretty much the role of Vergere in the EU
@37, But it’s also in that fight in Bespin that he learns the thing that will be his redemption, and Anakin’s. So it’s hard to argue that despite almost losing it all, it wasn’t the right choice to make. I think you’re right when you point to the line dividing affection and attachment, but my problem with the Jedi as presented is that they don’t see that line anymore.
I think I might have worked this out by myself, but I don’t remember it being more than a personal theory to try and logically justify at least one part of this film.
Basically I’d forgotten how much of a mess this film is.
@@@@@ 49 So, according to you, Scotland shouldn’t have the right to secede from the UK, nor should Catalonia have the right to secede from the rest of Spain.
@12 – Lisamarie: The Separatists are different from the Alliance in their motivations: the Alliance wanted to overthrow the Empire and restore the Republic, return things as to how they were before, and return to Democracy. The Confederacy wants to break from that Republic, and form a separate political entity, not overthrow the Republic.
@21- Anthony Pero: I liked the Yoda fight too.
#Truth
Phantom Menace is cool, especially in early Padawan scenes, until Jar Jar raises his ugly head and sends that one off the rails. Attack of the Clones has the horrific dialogue in the love story that kills the movie (much of which is quoted in the review and is execrable – the sand v. soft and smooth lines are worthy of particular note). Potential was there for this to work well but mishandled horribly. Agree with the poster above is that it at least reduced by expectations for Ep. 3, making that even more enjoyable.
CLB@37:
The difference is that the original trilogy transcends the pastiche, for millions of people, and the prequels just don’t.
@55 RE @12:
I think that’s close, but not quote right. The Separatists and the Alliance had a different endgame, because Palpatine changed what constituted a win. The Separatist movement birthed the Alliance after its leadership was destroyed and Loyalists who thought Palpatine had gone too far took it over. But my reading of Aftermath makes me think Mon Mothma sympathized with the reasoning behind the Separatist’s secession, because the New Republic she is setting up looks an awful lot like what the Confederacy Dooku paid lip service to.
@58/59 – Anthony: The original trilogy transcends the pastiche for many fans in their hearts, but it doesn’t in its material.
As for the Separatist/Alliance ties… I must admit that I never followed much of the Legends “rise of the empire” era fiction (I much prefer the Rebellion, New Republic, and Legacy eras), but has there ever been any actual indication that the Separatist movement is responsible for the Alliance?
If anything, in the current continuity, Rebels seems to indicate that the core of the Alliance is former Republic military, as well as one Jedi. And we know Bail Organa, Mon Monthma, and all those civilian leaders of the Alliance were Republic “Loyalists”, as you aptly call them.
I’m not speaking of the Legends non-canon, but the book Aftermath, which is canon. To answer your question, no, there is no direct indication, other than tangential things such as technology, ship styles, etc. But, I infer Mon Mothma’s disposition from her scenes in Aftermath.
@anthony and lordmagnusen – my question was in some ways free association. Like, I know tat the Sith Lords and the Trade Federation had nefarious motives, but I wonder about some of the individual planets that weren’t part of that scheme. Did they have legitimate grievances? And how binding is membership in the Republic? I get the impression there are plenty of other systems that aren’t part of the Republic at all. Now, if they wanted to leave the Republic so they could start a slavery and human trafficking ring, then I’d say, yeah, that sucks, and the Republic needs to protect those citizens. But I just wonder what it was really about to the average person.
That’s interesting about Aftermath – I haven’t read it yet (I want to go into Episide VII totally unspoiled for anything) but…very interesting :) But I suppose it makes sense that the Separatists – who didn’t want to be part of the Republic, certainly wouldn’t want to be part of the Empire either. Especially if they had ‘legitamate’ reasons for being against the Republic in the first place. Heck, even the power hungry ones probably wouldn’t want to be in the Empire either, since they are not the ones with the power!
Loyalists isn’t a term Anthony invented – I am pretty sure it’s used in the novelization and/or deleted scenes. In Revenge of the Sith Padme is part of a secret group that includes Mon Mothma, Bail Organa and a few others (I’m blanking on their names) that oppose Palpatine’s growing powers and warmongering. They want to go back to negotiaton (hence Padme’s role and lines in RotS and Anakin accusing her of sounding like a Sepratist)…and then they ultimately go on to be the backbone of the Rebellion. Which also makes sense – they are trying to bring the Republic back to its ideal, so of course they aren’t going to want an Empire either!
@40 – I’m familiar with George Lucas’s Eastern leanings, which is why it’s somewhat perplexing to me at times that the Force is initially couched in this Light side/Dark side duality, and the Dark side is presented as unequivocally evil. Yoda seems pretty extreme about it, and I get the impression we’re supposed to take him at face value when he talks about touching the Dark side being something that will always dominate your destiny from there on. Which (at least for the sake of my own head canon) is what leads me to posit that it’s not so much the Force itself that has a ‘bad part’ and ‘good part’, but more about the mentalities in its use. If you are using your power for revenge, gain, seduction, etc – that is going to be addictive and possibly corrupt you. Even as a Christian, which is obviously a much different type of philosophy, I don’t like the idea of a ‘dark side’ because how can something that is not sentient be inherently evil? It’s hard for me to square. (Especially as Christianity isn’t really dualist despite the God/Devil dichotomy; evil (or Satan) isn’t seen as some equal but opposing force, but rather a preversion/corruption of something good, and it’s not necessary to keep things ‘balanced’). So for me at least, it makes more sense to think about it in terms of motives and character and using prudence to determine when it is appropriate to be aggressive and when it is not, and the balance between truly caring about people but not being unduly attached/possessive. And like you said, that may differ when it comes to circumstances.
Of course, then you get into Wheel of Time-esque philosophies (which was also influenced by Eastern thought) where there really is a Dark One who is basically sentient and wills malice/destruction but he is ‘needed’ for the Wheel to turn and, honestly, I’m not really a fan of that philosophy, although I accept that’s just How It Is in Randland. But I don’t get the impression the Force is like that and that there is some ‘need’ for Sith/Dark Side practitioners to keep the universe running.
I understand that in the grand scale there is of course a need for both death and birth; destruction and creation. But that’s not really ‘evil’. I suppose in a perfect world everything would happen exactly in its due time and it wouldn’t be a cause for grief because we’d a)understand that and b)if your philosophy/belief system also has a sense of an afterlife or eternal soul you’d also understand it’s not really the end either.
As usual, I love your comments :)
As far as Rebels… you’ll have to tell me what you are refering to. I watch the show with my daughter, but I’m not seeing any Republic military. And, from the Clone Wars cartoon, it seems that most of the Republic military that wasn’t Clones dressed and acted a lot like the Imperials. Such as Tarkin. The converted frigates and corvettes we see in Rebels are certainly not former republic military vehicles. The Republic had no standing army prior to buying it from the Kaminoens, and the ships that came with the Clones are distinctly Imperial in design in EP II and III (And the clone wars cartoon).
@61 – Anthony: I get that you inferred Mothma’s disposition from her actions in Aftermath, but sorry, nothing else suggests what you’re saying. Tech and ship styles is just what they had available, and not under control of the Empire.
@62 – Lisamarie: The thing is that while the Confederacy has actual planetary or sector governments that act as part of it, the Alliance is a completely clandestine movement, at least at the begining.
@63 – Anthony: It could be my imagination, I somewhat seem to have thought that Commander Sato wore a Republic uniform. And the Republic had no army, but they did have a navy and non-clone officers are seen in The Clone Wars cartoon. We still have no way of saying whether the Alliance’s military backbone was formed from Confederacy or Repbulic military, but I believe it makes more sense for former Republic military to follow Republic senators like Mon Mothma and Bail Organa instead of Separatists doing so.
I was a rather sheltered teenager when the film came out, and considered the “sand/smooth” line delightfully naughty.
@64:
Fair enough. Its certainly ambiguous enough to go either direction moving forward, should the Lucas Story Group choose to fill in those gaps.
@64:
Also, it was my understanding that the Republic had no standing military. At all. I could certainly be wrong on that, but I thought what it had was more like Nato when the Prequels started. There were planetary governments that had military groups, but no standing armed forces for the Galactic Republic. That’s why they were unprepared to do anything but send two Jedi (Qui-Gon: “We are not a military force, we can only protect you.”) when economic blocs such as the Trade Federation started fielding their own military forces.
I remember going to see Attack of the clones and not being enjoyed while watching it. The geonosis battle was a fun level in Star Wars Battlefront II
That someone was the very same person who write this article, the indomitable Emmet Asher-Perrin. (Not Camille Paglia, as mutantalbinocrocodile suspected, although I imagine Emily is jazzed by the comparison.)
Watching the Star Wars Prequels on Mute: An Experiment
I wouldn’t watch them on mute — I’d miss the score and the sound effects — but I’m tempted to throw the audio into a language I don’t understand and leave the subtitles off.
(What I’m really waiting for is the day when technology allows me to go in, sample the voices and redub all of the dialogue with my own rewritten version.)
@70:
I’d like to take a stab at giving them the Voltron treatment. Cutting up the film, and redubbing my own dialog and plot over them.
I’m sure I’d get a DMCA takedown notice from Disney about 5 seconds after it hits the internet, of course.
glasself@32: I was thinking exactly this. After all, they’re rebooting and remaking everything else anymore, and with far less justification. Chucking all of I, II, and III into the bin and having someone else do them over would be a fine idea. Shame we wouldn’t be able to get Ewan McGregor or Liam Neeson again, but …
Past the execrable dialogue and the premature enthusiasm for virtual sets, Ep II is the movie that really breaks any attempt to consider the whole set of movies as any grand exercise in worldbuilding. Which is fine, mind you- I’m perfectly happy for authors to redo the Klingon foreheads, so to speak, as they learn more- but what’s puzzling is that the pretty systematic retcon of the dribs and drabs of backstory supplanted a wholly defensible adventure story with some strong opportunities for much loved pastiche in favor of this hash where looking back on the Jedi and the Republic favorably, as worthy of restoration, is pretty damn hard, sandwiched between dubious ethics and wanton stupidity.
“History” as it stood when the OT concluded, seemed to be a nice resonant rehash of adventures stories about foreign legions and Flying Tigers and crusades and the like. Leia’s adoptive father was some kind of military man, Obi-Wan elected to join him, and Anakin tagged along, presumably out of friendship. The Clone Wars seemed to be a pretty straightforward instance of someone without moral scruples human-waving the good guys with disposable soldiers, with the inevitable complications of our heroes not finding them to be quite so disposable. Leia and Luke’s mother lived long enough for Leia to remember them. And presumably Jedi could have friends and lovers and babies like everyone else. The Republic was a nice, liberal, Weimar-esque entity that collapsed in the face of brutal men.
Post Ep 1, that vision is still mostly salvageable. Sure, the Republic is outgunned, but it doesn’t seem foolish. Sure, it’s not super awesome that Qui-Gon leaves Shmi Skywalker in bondage, but he’s outside Republic jurisdiction, he’s got a war to fight, and he saves who he can. But that whole peace and justice in the Old Republic bit is within sight. It’s easy to imagine that, perhaps the Republic is unable to defend some group of planets from armies of clones charging out of the dark, but many Jedi and non-Jedi citizens alike band together to defend them. Anakin is perhaps totally trained, and goes scampering off after Obi, perhaps leaving newborn twins behind to form a few memories of Mom but not of Dad. And maybe Anakin sees some stuff he can’t unsee, and lo and behold, Vadertown.
But all that- or your version- is replaced by a world where the Jedi cheerfully accept ownership of a slave army, but are not quite clever enough to figure out who ordered millions of copies of a guy who is SHOOTING AT THEM and consider that a problematic situation. Where the notion that the Jedi are the stewards of a contemplative tradition as diverse and humane as any other is replaced by one where they are obligate kidnappers with some plentiful issues regarding family life. The Jedi we assume are kept on a short leash owing to their mind-control powers apparently get free passes from government officials when they go on killing sprees.
AND I DON”T KNOW WHY.
The entire difference between original trilogy and the prequels, for me, is that when I look deeper at the original trilogy I find new layers and things to wonder about and imagine riffs off of. When I look deeper at the prequels, all I discover is what this essay series is uncovering. It doesn’t bear closer study.
AOTC action was better overall, although its best parts didn’t reach PM’s. It felt geared to a bit higher age group (no scatology jokes, a lot less Jar Jar, no kid at the story’s center, etc.), so I preferred it briefly. But there’s just no getting around the wooden blocks and plot. And PM’s premiere at least earned some “you had to be there” nostalgia status. AOTC then is AOTC now.
@74:
I would say that thee are layers to the prequels, but they are unnecessarily more difficult to uncover, and not as rewarding when you do.
I know this is an unpopular opinion…but I do very much enjoy watching AotC. Now I will freely confess – this is mostly(entirely?) due to when I watched it, but I was never a big Star Wars fan growing up. Didn’t even watch TPM in theatres. AotC was the first Star Wars movie I saw in theatres – went and saw it with my sisters when I was fifteen, and while I “liked” Star Wars before…AotC cemented my SW fandom. First SW movie I saw in the theatre…and I was thrilled with the spectacle!! (Being a fifteen year old boy probably helped). So sure, the love scenes and all Anakin/Padme scenes were weird and deeply awkward. But that was ok, because the Obi-Wan scenes were just fantastic. The Obi-Wan/Jango interaction still remains one of my favorites moments in any Star Wars movies…starting with their verbal duel…moving on to their-slightly-more-deadly duel on the platforms.
The movie was just beautifully shot and the music was gorgeous(as always). I ended up watching this movie many many times throughout high school and college(probably the movie I did most of my exam-studying to!)…and though I can now recognize the many flaws in this movie(not making your nominal protagonist even slightly likeable is a very big flaw!), I can only say that this movie captured my heart when I first saw it on the big screen and it was the movie that made me a huge SW fan. So to that, I owe it a debt of gratitude, truly!
I’ve noticed this comment has turned into more of a personal story than actually talking about the movie, but maybe that’s for the best. Already 75 comments here talking about the movie itself, right? I just wanted to express my love for this movie, warts and all. (And I’m not a pun person…so Threepio’s puns really should annoy me. Somehow, they never have).
Sonofthunder, I enjoyed all the prequels. And I will still enjoy them every time watch them. It’s just that they are not up to the quality of the original trilogy, and it’s not just a matter of taste, and when you examine them closely, their plots fall apart.
Yeah, I’ll still watch AOTC and even enjoy it. But it’s definitely my least favorite.
Funny that you mention Obi-Wan and Jango’s verbal duel. I also love that part. Actually, for the 7 years we’ve been married (and probably even before that), my husband and I both have a tendency to answer questions by giving the other a shifty expression and saying “…Possibly”.
My least favorite is most definitely TPM.
WRT Sifo Dyas, the rumor I’ve heard is that the original intent was to use Sido Dyas, a poorly concealed pseudonym for Sidious, but someone mis-typed his name at some point, and somehow it stuck, thus the character is literally a typo.
#73: While I loved this article, that is the best summation of the problem with Ep 2 I have ever seen.
So…I guess I can’t really disagree with anything you wrote here. I mean, there’s a lot of BAD stuff in this movie, mostly centered around the CRAP dialogue and creepy Anakin. I liked this movie a lot when it first came out, and I thought it was better than Phantom Menace, but now I simply cannot get past the “I wish I could wish away my feelings” scene. So this movie ranks on the bottom of the six for me. At the same time, I can watch this and think, “Ok, on the whole it wasn’t as bad as I was thinking.” And that’s the thing, I can watch this movie again, and I wonder how much is the entertainment value it holds and how much is nostalgia. Because there have definitely been episodes of the Clone Wars cartoon that I thought were boring/hard to get through, or that I just found dumb and annoying. So I think that must prove that it’s not that you can just stick Star Wars related stuff into anything and make it seem good to me. That being said, I would probably NEVER recommend that someone such watch this movie and probably would act embarrassingly apologetic to anyone who has seen it. So I don’t know what’s going on with me.
Love the Obi-Wan stuff though.
I think the only sense that we get that the Separatists are bad is who’s in it (aside from learning that Count Dooku is now a Sith). First of all, the Trade Federation and specifically Gunray (and we know a little bit about them from the first one), the Banking Clan (and we know a little bit about them from the housing market crash), and the Techno wah woo wah whey wah Union. And I’m sorry, I’m just not that into Techno. I know a lot of nerds are into it for some reason, but simply repeating a cool line from a movie over and over again imposed over some wonky digital sounding music just doesn’t do it for me. And the songs are so.long. And just repeat. Or rather kind of don’t; there doesn’t seem to be any directed rhythm or theme. So yeah, and group of people that accepts a Union full of potato heads in Mr. Freeze outfits shuffling their feet around singing “The system, is down” has to be bad guys to me. But we don’t really SEE that until the end of the movie. At the beginning of the movie, I guess we are just lead to believe there are “increasing threats” from the Separatists. In fact, the Jedi seem to reject the idea that Count Dooku could assassinate anyone, so they at least think the Separatists are maybe not that bad?
Anyway, on the nature of the Jedi Order and all of that, at one point, possibly even published as part of the EU–I don’t know, there was the idea that in the early days there were the Jedi Bendu and different groups of Force users, and what became the Jedi Knights was the group that was more about fighting an interacting with the world than the navel gazers. And I’m kind of hoping that maybe some of the stand alone side movies they are planning maybe deal with the history of the Jedi and keep that idea that the Jedi of the saga are a very specific surviving sect of Jedi that have particular beliefs that were not always shared by all Jedi (to really say nothing of the Sith also being born of a Jedi sect). I’m also kind of secretly hoping that some of these side movies show an older incarnation of the Jedi that preserves some of the ideas of what the Jedi were from the “Tales of the Jedi” comics–namely, the idea of Jedi Masters on different planets who take on certain apprentices, rather than everyone being trained at the temple (although I kind of do like the prequel system too, and the idea of Masters then taking their Padawans out on assignments). This idea of Jedi Masters actually seems like it fits a litle more with lines from the OT like “The Jedi Master who instructed me,” and “I thought I could instruct him just as well as Yoda.” I’ll certainly agree that the prequels changed some of the ideas that were gleaned from the OT about what those times were like, how old Anakin was when Obi-Wan met him, etc.
@74: I think the prequels allow for more eisegesis in some ways. While not explicitly stated in the films, many people have delved into the nature of the Jedi Order and what it was that brought about their fall, what bringing “Balance to the Force” means, etc. I think they also provide a lot in terms of the political machinations and plans of Palpatine, if you are into that stuff. I know that one of the complaints about TPM in particular is that people couldn’t stomach the politics.
I’m kind of hoping that in The Force Awakens that part of Kylo Ren’s agenda/plot and the Vader helmet and Anakin’s lighsaber, etc., has to do with whatever “Bringing balance to the Force” means. While I get the impression that Abrams for the most part would care to sweep the prequels under the rug, I think it would be a good way to tie all the trilogies together. Especially in light of the fact that they are planning on making non-Saga movies, I feel like if something has an “Episode XX” label that these should all have some over-arching theme, rather than simply being a continuation of the events of a story. So I think learning about the “Balance” of the Force and the nature of good and evil in the galaxy would be a good connecting theme.
@76: Also loved the verbal duel.
And I forgot to mention, I actually really liked the lightsaber fights in this one (minus the crazy Yoda one, where if you go frame by frame doesn’t look like his is actually fighting). Whereas TPM had the wild battle, this one had the controlled elegance. Especially with Anakin vs. Dooku, where they are circiling each other in anticipation before they go into it, you get the impression that these are two really powerful Force users actually using the Force to duel, rather than just flashy gymnastics. As a “tone poem”/artform type of thing, I think that might be my favorite duel after Empire, which is just beautiful. (Of course there’s then the emotional duel of Jedi).
I agree in general with most of your assessment of this film. It makes no sense whatsoever. To me it felt like Star Wars in the age of MMORPGS. Our characters have Quests! And they are totally irrelevant and involve many unnecessary extra steps Just Because!
That being said, I actually liked this movie for a couple of reasons. Sure it didn’t make much sense, but it sure was fun. Visually, this movie is top notch. I loved the Kamino scenes, hands down some of the coolest and most interesting aliens in the franchise; a better story line for this plot would have been amazing. Anyway it was still fun. The fight with Jango was interesting and if nothing else at least gives Boba some motivation for being a surly sourpuss who mimics his father later.
There’s also some interesting foreshadowing between Anakin and Palpatine, lots of great costume and lighting choices. And if you put the TV on mute and watch the scenes between Anakin and Padme with your own made up dialogue, they really are stunningly shot. I also happened to like the ridiculous factory scene and thought it was definitively Star Wars through and through, right down to the C3P0 jokes, though they got old after the first two. I even liked the hokey coliseum combat scene. I do remember being more impressed with the Yoda fight scene the first time around, now its more like “wait, what?” But yeah in general most of the effects and visuals were enough of a distraction for me to not really care about the particularly weak story.
Also, what the hell is up with a Jedi holding a formal title?
Maybe showing that if your family is important, they don’t completely sever your ties to it. Corruption, even in the horrible system the Jedi Order has of separating kids from their families for indoctrination.
I think Padme’s reaction to Anakin’s return from slaughtering the Radier village only makes sense with two interpretations.
1) She doesn’t actually think the Sand People are sapient beings worth the name “People”. So Anakin slaughtering the lot of them isn’t much worse than putting down some animals who attacked a person.
2) She is trapped in an enclosed space with an emotionally stunted man who wields a very dangerous weapon and who has shown a proficiency and propensity to wield said weapon. She was just trying to say anything she could to ratchet him down. When the mass-murdering psycho comes to you to be a post-slaughter shoulder to cry on, telling him he’s a very dangerous psycho and you’re repulsed by his existence, without any ability to protect yourself, is probably not going to end well.
That neither of these scenarios were the case, and she really did love him deeply is just part of a terrible movie.
@Aeryl: I assume you’re referring to Count Dooku. Other sources have said that after he left the Jedi Order was when he resumed his family title of Count, though that doesn’t really come across in the movie.
@88:
I think its brought up in the Clone Wars series, so I believe its canon. Dooku resumed the title “Count” after reclaiming his family’s estates and leaving the Jedi order.
@87 – SFC B: Only scenario #1 makes sense. Because #2 would have included her NOT MARRYING ANAKIN. :)
@88/89: Yeah, but for him to resume the title and claim his lands/planets/whatever after leaving the order would have included his ties with his familie not being severed when he was taken in by the order, presumably as a little boy. And that’s probably only possible because his was a noble, wealthy family.
Seriously? Saddlebags for the head?
I love the way Star Wars keeps providing me with a wealth of ways to avoid watching it.
@69, I didn’t actually know that Ms. Asher-Perrin has made the same argument, but I definitely wasn’t seeing things when I cited Camille Paglia. It’s still here (and unusually for the Chronicle of Higher Ed, appears to be readable without a subscription) http://chronicle.com/article/Why-George-Lucas-Is-the/134942
Good idea @70 of using an alternate language dialogue track. I’ve never tried the mute trick, because I can’t imagine doing without John Williams and the logistics of setting up a completely different set of speakers to play the score in perfect sync are a bit beyond me, and a “score but no dialogue” option isn’t on the DVD. But making everyone speak Chinese or something is an experiment worth trying.
[Leaves to see if set of Star Wars DVDs have a non-Indo-European language track option so absolutely nothing is comprehensible. . .]
Bummer. If you change language you sacrifice 5.1 for 2.0 channel sound. Boo.
The thing I never understood about AOTC was the fact that Obiwan finds this Jango guy in cahoots with the group making the clone army and then he’s also allied with the separatists who are making the droid armies. And no one thinks that is suspicious?
There is one option that makes AOTC significantly more watchable (whether it makes any difference to Padme’s common sense/ethics is another matter and I don’t want to open that can of worms), but it slightly gets into “Death of The Author/George Lucas As Idiot Savant” territory and not everyone is comfortable with Death of the Author. However, while I agree that Anakin really doesn’t work as a fallen hero, he is, to my eye, much more convincing as a sufferer of Borderline Personality Disorder. This isn’t my pet theory–Anakin Skywalker is actually getting into clinical psychology textbooks to help students understand BPD, and to put a male face on it when it’s often mischaracterized as more common in females. But he meets standard criteria, especially an uncertain sense of self which makes him easy to manipulate and a tendency towards obsessional love/hate relationships (the way that Padme falls into this category, and is arguably a bit of a mother substitute, is creepy but at least interesting). And this works well with a Fallen Jedi kind of approach to excessive avoidance of attachment–BPD usually develops out of an early childhood attachment disorder. And now we’re firmly in Evil Yoda territory and I really, really don’t think Lucas wants us there no matter how you read the films. . .
That said, a factoid about the upcoming films and “Balance of the Force” that is relevant, and that I am amazed hasn’t been absolutely all over the Internet. On the first night of Star Wars Weekends, James Arnold Taylor (Clone Wars Obi-Wan) said straight out, with hundreds of people listening and presumably on an approved script, that LUKE is the Chosen One. Which opens up some very, very interesting speculation along Aeryl’s lines about Luke restoring a more appropriate balance of affection and detachment to the Jedi, etc., etc., etc. Like I said, I’m still surprised the Internet didn’t crash dissecting it. It definitely happened.
@94 – That is a very good point. The creation of the clones and their seemingly smooth incorporation into a Jedi-led army is one of the odder aspects of the prequels. It almost seems as though–just going by the films–no one really stopped to ask questions. It’s like someone starts shooting at you, and then someone else hands you a blaster. You just start shooting back at the first person because it seems like the only thing to do at that moment.
@95 – It probably goes back to Lucas’ shifting narrative about what the saga actually centers on, i.e. all of the “Tragedy of Anakin Skywalker” talk. The original trilogy clearly centers on Luke and the whole Sith-uation is resolved based on his actions, but that tends to be somewhat forgotten anymore.
In Expanded Universe, in Heir To The Empire, Dark Force Rising, and The Last Command, it was made apparent that the Clone Wars were in fact a war fought by clones, so the article’s suggestion that it was otherwise in Expanded Universe is not a well informed suggestion at all.
@95, 96 – that’s interesting. I feel like GL has been on record saying no, Anakin still is the Chosen One and it was killing Palpatine that ultimately brought balance to the Force. But it’s not like he hasn’t changed his mind before ;) I could go with either theory, honestly.
Politics aside, I just want to say that I adore Padme’s role in the coliseum fight. There’s no badass ‘eowyn’ type moment, or even a ‘leia strangles jabba’ moment.
She tries to stay safe, eventually obtains a weapon, and calmly finds a protected place on the battlefield from which to shoot people. For some reason, for me, this struck me as the most realistic thing in the film.
A couple of years late to the conversation but I’ve always wanted to point out that the scene where Dooku tries to seduce Obi-Wan to the Dark Side and the scene in LotR where Saruman tries to seduce Gandalf to Sauron’s side are practically the same scene yet Christopher Lee plays them so differently. The man was brilliant.
Yeah, I know. Unconvincing as all heck. On the other hand we see that Leia and her Mom have similar problems with romantic commitment.
And of course there’s Ewan MacGregor to drool over!
He becomes Darth Vader, what do you want him and his wife to have no flaws? They had flaws, get over it. If they were perfect people, they could never screw up that royally, but they had to because of 4-6.
102, I believe it’s more that people believe how the “flaws” were portrayed was “flawed” in a sense, that it lacked a degree of authenticity to it.
At least the leads in Attack of the Clones had more chemistry than the leads in Valerian.